Loaf 12

White sourdough (*)

Onwards.

Let’s try changing more than one thing at a time. Again.

~Midday – refresh starter with added ~50g water and ~50g rye flour, but …

Put the jar in the machine. It’s a bit wobbly because it doesn’t fit. But the lid closes. On at Menu 30 – i.e. rest at 30℃ for a while

Seven hours later and a nice fruity looking starter …

Ingredients

  • 110g rye starter (meant to make it 100g but sloppy)
  • 460g strong white flour (mostly a new packet of M&S organic)
  • 340g water
  • 15g EVOO
  • 8g salt

Around about this time I discovered the Facebook Group Panasonic Bread Maker Recipe Group UK & Ireland, and it’s full of good stuff, including a few people who’ve done sourdough. There’s a bit to investigate in there. I like that it’s UK based so the ingredients are available and it’s mostly metric.

One thing people seem to do is use the pizza dough option for preparing sourdough, so I’m giving that a try.

Method (setup)

  1. 1920 – Menu 32 (Pizza Dough!)
  2. 2020 – Menu 30 (overnight)
  3. 0900 – around 12 hours overnight on menu 30. Looks like it has risen a fair amount overnight then sunk back.
  4. 0910 – bake only for an hour

Notes

Not good. One of the worst. Usual story. Good taste, poor dense texture. Pretty unappealing.

So that’s loaf no. 12. Out of 12 so far I’d say there’s only been one I’d describe as good. The remained split between fair and poor. Wasting quite a bit of ingredients too. Things to try:

  1. reduce amount of starter
  2. menu 29 (sourdough) for only an hour
  3. rest on menu 30 until well risen – but not indefinitely
  4. bake only – menu 18 when it looks ready

Standard Footnotes

Breadmaker is SD-ZX2522 (discontinued) (Instruction Manual)

Most used program menus
Abbreviations sometimes used
  • EVOO – Extra Virgin Olive Oil
  • swf – Strong White Flour
  • wmf – wholemeal flour
  • M32, M30 – Menu 32, Menu 30 etc …
Other bits

Loaf 11

White sourdough (***)

Another go. Same ingredients. One hour on menu 29, then overnight on menu 30. Then a one hour bake.

The dough looked and smelt good and had a good rise, but it lost its way on the bake. Not a disaster. Better than loaf 10 but it lost a lot of rise on the bake.

Standard Footnotes

Breadmaker is SD-ZX2522 (discontinued) (Instruction Manual)

Most used program menus
Abbreviations sometimes used
  • EVOO – Extra Virgin Olive Oil
  • swf – Strong White Flour
  • wmf – wholemeal flour
  • M32, M30 – Menu 32, Menu 30 etc …
Other bits

Loaf 10

White sourdough (**)

Can I repeat the dizzy success of Loaf 9? (TLDR; No).

It’s difficult to resist the temptation to tweak and experiment, so I won’t. I should, of course, only change one thing at a time, and I’m not going to, and I’m going to regret it.

Ingredients

  • 60g rye starter
  • 460g strong white flour (Tesco organic)
  • 340g water
  • 7g salt
  • 15g EVOO (Terra Delyssa)

Method (setup)

  1. 1800 – Menu 29 (rustic sourdough)
  2. 2130 – Menu 30 overnight
  3. 0830- Menu 18 (bake only)

Notes

Not great. It had risen a lot overnight and was looking and smelling good before baking. It hasn’t risen anymore during bake. It’s dropped if anything. Same old same old. Tasty but dense texture.

A couple of things I’m going to try next time:

  1. Shorter bake time. Let’s try an hour instead of hour and a half. It won’t make any difference to the rise but perhaps I might prefer softer crumb. The novelty of the crispy crusty crust might be wearing off.
  2. Shorten knead time (menu 29). I like the idea of allowing the program to run to completion but it does two kneads. Loaf 9 only had one knead (pretty sure I stopped it in the middle rest period). I’ll try that for loaf 11.
Standard Footnotes

Breadmaker is SD-ZX2522 (discontinued) (Instruction Manual)

Most used program menus
Abbreviations sometimes used
  • EVOO – Extra Virgin Olive Oil
  • swf – Strong White Flour
  • wmf – wholemeal flour
  • M32, M30 – Menu 32, Menu 30 etc …
Other bits

Loaf 9

White sourdough (****)

Time to take a step back I think. Eight loaves in and still don’t have a reliable baseline to start with, never mind any thoughts of experimentation. So, stick with a rye starter and keep it simple.

Refreshing the starter. Added approx 40g rye flour and 40g water to, …, how much starter? Not sure. And not sure when I should be refreshing the starter. Thinking about it, do you refresh it ahead of when you plan to use it? And if so, how long? And do you leave it in the cupboard or resting at around 30℃ on menu 30, and for how long?

Well too late to worry about that now. Just refreshed it and given a good stir. It looks and smells good.

Ingredients

  • 60g rye starter
  • 460g strong white flour (Tesco organic)
  • 335g water
  • 15g EVOO
  • 5g salt
  • squeeze syrup (I’m not very consistent on this)

Method (setup)

  1. 2254 – Menu 29, but only for about an hour, then onto Menu 30 overnight.
  2. 0810 – Menu 18 (Bake Only) (1½ hours)

Notes

Well it doesn’t look bad at all. I let the bake program run the full 1½ hours which is probably unnecessary but I quite like a bit of crust and caramelisation so it’s fine. It looks good but I’m thinking the loaf hasn’t actually risen anymore during the bake.

A couple of things emerging; the bake-only versus a bake program seems best, and it’s best not to let the dough rest/rise too long.

Standard Footnotes

Breadmaker is SD-ZX2522 (discontinued) (Instruction Manual)

Most used program menus
Abbreviations sometimes used
  • EVOO – Extra Virgin Olive Oil
  • swf – Strong White Flour
  • wmf – wholemeal flour
  • M32, M30 – Menu 32, Menu 30 etc …
Other bits

Loaf 8

White sourdough (**)

Ingredients

  • 100g wheat starter
  • 5g salt
  • 460g strong white flour (Tesco organic)
  • 335g water
  • squeeze syrup

Method (setup)

  1. 1515 – Menu 29 (rustic sourdough) (full cycle)
  2. ~1800 – Menu 30 (sourdough starter)
  3. 2200 – looking good. rising well. will leave overnight
  4. ~0900 – not looking so good. a bit of a slump. Bake Only

Notes

Looked very promising last night, and during the night it must’ve stopped rising and gone into reverse. Perhaps I should’ve baked last night. Or possibly put on a bake program overnight but then I reckon that’d have overworked the dough with even more kneading.

Standard Footnotes

Breadmaker is SD-ZX2522 (discontinued) (Instruction Manual)

Most used program menus
Abbreviations sometimes used
  • EVOO – Extra Virgin Olive Oil
  • swf – Strong White Flour
  • wmf – wholemeal flour
  • M32, M30 – Menu 32, Menu 30 etc …
Other bits

Loaf 7

Ingredients

  • 80g rye starter
  • 460g strong white flour (end of Doves organic, start of Tesco organic)
  • 7g salt
  • 15g EVOO (Terra Delyssa)
  • 335g water

Method (setup)

  1. 1900 – on menu 29 (rustic sourdough), but only for about 15 minutes
  2. 1930 – menu 30 (sourdough starter) for a while. overnight. How long?
  3. ~0700 – menu 18 bake only

Notes

Ok. Flat top, dense texture, good taste. Had risen a lot overnight, looking encouraging, then lost interest in the bake.

Standard Footnotes

Breadmaker is SD-ZX2522 (discontinued) (Instruction Manual)

Most used program menus
Abbreviations sometimes used
  • EVOO – Extra Virgin Olive Oil
  • swf – Strong White Flour
  • wmf – wholemeal flour
  • M32, M30 – Menu 32, Menu 30 etc …
Other bits

Loaf 6

White sourdough (*)

Refresh the wheat starter. I now have 420g. Seems a lot.

Ingredients

  • 130g wheat starter (not intended to use quite so much but it tends to slurp out)
  • 460g strong white flour (Doves (I keep wanting to put an apostrophe in there) Organic)
  • 340g water
  • 15g EVOO (Terra Delyssa)
  • 7g salt
  • No syrup this time

Method (setup)

  1. 1430 – Menu 29 (rustic sourdough) (full program)
  2. 1700 – Menu 30 (sourdough starter)
  3. 2030 – Menu 11 (rustic sourdough) on timer for 0800 tomorrow

Notes

Not great. Not very well risen. Tasty enough. But very dense.

It had a decent rise before baking overnight so I’m beginning to think the bake programs over-knead the already kneaded and risen dough. If anything, the loaf has less rise after baking than when it was still a dough.

My notes are a bit vague. Was it the french (menu 10) or rustic sourdough (menu 11), and would it really have made that much difference?

I think for the next loaf I’m going to try a rye starter and do the bake only (menu 18) program as it does no more kneading. I have about 220g rye starter now, and if I only need 80g, then I probably should be going light on the refreshing.

Standard Footnotes

Breadmaker is SD-ZX2522 (discontinued) (Instruction Manual)

Most used program menus
Abbreviations sometimes used
  • EVOO – Extra Virgin Olive Oil
  • swf – Strong White Flour
  • wmf – wholemeal flour
  • M32, M30 – Menu 32, Menu 30 etc …
Other bits

Loaf 5

White sourdough (**)

Loaf 4 went well. I’m going to try the same again but this time using a rye starter.

Ingredients

  • 80g rye starter
  • 460g strong white flour (Doves organic)
  • squeeze of syrup
  • 7g salt
  • 15g EVOO (Terra Delyssa)
  • 335g water

Method (setup)

On to Menu 29 (Sourdough starter) around 6pm. Then overnight on timer on Menu 10 (French)

Notes

Hasn’t risen very well. Denser and not as appealing as the one made with wheat starter, but tastes fine. Preferring these breads untoasted too. I’m not sure sourdough bread toasts that well.

Workflow needs some work. I don’t give a huge amount of thought to refreshing starter, whether to do it just before preparing ingredients, or after. I’m not sure how much I have either. The empty jars weigh about 700g and the wheat one weighs 1084g so about 380g there. That’s plenty.

Looking at Andrew Whitley’s Bread Matters (page 162) I see he suggests 1:10 and 1:3 ratios for rye and wheat starter in recipes. I’ve not being paying much attention to that. Should I have used more wheat starter and less rye starter? Something to try for Loaf 6? I’m beginning to lose the thread a little.

Standard Footnotes

Breadmaker is SD-ZX2522 (discontinued) (Instruction Manual)

Most used program menus
Abbreviations sometimes used
  • EVOO – Extra Virgin Olive Oil
  • swf – Strong White Flour
  • wmf – wholemeal flour
  • M32, M30 – Menu 32, Menu 30 etc …
Other bits

Loaf 4

White sourdough (****)

I’m planning to try a French Loaf (Menu 10) on the timer overnight. Generally I’ve found the French loaf menu the most forgiving; perhaps it’s something to do with the longer program. From my reading it looks like it has one of the shorter (10-20 minutes) knead times so I’m hoping this will prevent too much kneading. I’ll go with French (menu 10) but will do rustic sourdough (menu 29) first.

Ingredients

  • 80g wheat starter
  • 460g strong white flour (End of Duchy Organic packet, start of Doves organic)
  • squeeze of syrup
  • 7g salt
  • 20g EVOO (was meant to be 15g)
  • 335g water

Method (setup)

  1. 1840: Menu 10 (Sourdough Starter) (full cycle).
  2. ~2200: Menu 10 (French). Overnight.

Notes

Good. Things to bear in mind:

  • It had an indeterminate length of time in pan after Menu 10.
  • It had several hours resting overnight before Menu 29 began.

There’s a couple of unknowns here:

  • Does the dough cycle heat the pan at all? i.e. to a nominal 30⁰C
  • Likewise, does the rest pre-phase for Menu 29 heat the pan?

My hunch is that it does but there are couple of unknowns here I need to check out.

Standard Footnotes

Breadmaker is SD-ZX2522 (discontinued) (Instruction Manual)

Most used program menus
Abbreviations sometimes used
  • EVOO – Extra Virgin Olive Oil
  • swf – Strong White Flour
  • wmf – wholemeal flour
  • M32, M30 – Menu 32, Menu 30 etc …
Other bits

Loaf 3

White sourdough (***)

Trying a shorter timeframe and Bake Only.

Ingredients

  • 80g rye starter
  • 460g strong white flour (Duchy organic)
  • 335g water
  • 15g EVOO (extra virgin olive oil)
  • squeeze of syrup
  • 5g salt

Method (setup)

  1. 1400 – Menu 29 (rustic sourdough)
  2. 1645 – Menu 30 (Have let menu 29 finish. )
  3. 1900 – Menu 18 (Bake only)

Notes

Looks good.

Standard Footnotes

Breadmaker is SD-ZX2522 (discontinued) (Instruction Manual)

Most used program menus
Abbreviations sometimes used
  • EVOO – Extra Virgin Olive Oil
  • swf – Strong White Flour
  • wmf – wholemeal flour
  • M32, M30 – Menu 32, Menu 30 etc …
Other bits

Standard Footnotes

Breadmaker is SD-ZX2522 (discontinued) (Instruction Manual)

Most used program menus
Abbreviations sometimes used
  • EVOO – Extra Virgin Olive Oil
  • swf – Strong White Flour
  • wmf – wholemeal flour
  • M32, M30 – Menu 32, Menu 30 etc …
Other bits